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Q.

Dear Father,

I have a question about Purgatory. The Bible teaches that the Dead know nothing (Qo 9,5) that is, they can no longer know what happens on Earth, nor what happens to their relatives, brothers, sisters, etc. The book of Job, for instance, tells about an ungodly who dies, and “if his sons are honored, he is not aware of it; if they are in disgrace, he does not know about them” (Job 14:21). According to many assertions about Purgatory, instead, our deceased have a knowledge of what we do. Maria Valtorta sees her mother in the flames of Purgatory. During their conversation, Maria Valtorta asks her mother whether she knows if her friend’s (Eroma Antonifli) mother is in purgatory. She replies: We know everything. During an interview with Maria Simma, she is asked, among others, these questions: How much do they know about their families? I would say almost everything. They always see us. They hear every word we say about them, and they know our suffering. But they do not know our thoughts. They follow their funeral and they know who is there to pray for them and who is there just to be seen by others.

Therefore, do souls know what happens in the world? I wonder how the souls in Purgatory can possibly have all this knowledge while, according to the Bible, the dead know nothing?

Thank you in advance

Sincerely

Giuseppe

A.

Dear Giuseppe,

1. From the Sacred Scripture there is from beginning to end the awareness that not everything dies with death. There is something that survives. However, there is an evolution of thought about life after death.

Initially it was thought that only the shadows would survive. Now, shadows do not think, they do not see, they do not love. There is no life in them.

That explains what we read in some Psalms: “Do you work wonders for the dead? Do the shades arise and praise you? Selah

Is your love proclaimed in the grave, your fidelity in the tomb?

Are your marvels declared in the darkness, your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?” (Ps 88:11-13).

And again: “The dead do not praise the Lord, all those gone down into silence.

It is we who bless the Lord, both now and forever. Hallelujah!” (Ps 114(115):17-18).

2. If we just stop at what ancient Israel thought, especially what emerges from the first five books of the Old Testament, that is true: the dead see nothing of us.

3. Later, in the Old Testament, the concept of life and remuneration becomes more and more explicit.

For this we read: “But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and no torment shall touch them. 

They seemed, in the view of the foolish, to be dead; and their passing away was thought an affliction and their going forth from us, utter destruction. But they are at peace.

For if before men, indeed, they be punished, yet is their hope full of immortality; Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself” (Wis 3,1-5).

4. Thus, we come to think that the righteous are welcomed into Abraham’s bosom after death, as happens for the poor Lazarus in the Gospel parable (rf. Lk 16:23).

For unrepentant sinners, on the other hand, we read: “the wicked shall receive a punishment to match their thoughts, since they neglected justice and forsook the Lord” (Wis 3:10).

That is the case for the rich man who feasted every day, lavishly and oblivious to Lazarus’ hunger.

He ends up in hell amidst torments (rf. Lk 16:23).

5. When Jesus spoke, the mentality of the people was precisely so, except for the Sadducees who had remained firm in the ancient belief by which only the shadows survive.

6. Now, after the resurrection of Christ, according to the men of the Church, what do the dead see?

St. Thomas says that “The dead do not know how the living act, for the life of the spirit is far from the life of the flesh; and so, as corporeal things differ from incorporeal in genus, so they are distinct in knowledge” (Moral. XII). Augustine seems to say the same (De Cura pro Mort. xiii), when he asserts that, “the souls of the dead have no concern in the affairs of the living” (Summa Theologica, I, 89, 8).

This is the general condition of souls separated from their bodies, that is, of the souls of the dead.

7. However, the dead are not all in the same condition. Some are in Heaven, others are in Purgatory and others are in Hell.

For those who are in Heaven, things are different.

St. Gregory continues the passage above quoted: “The case of the holy souls is different, for since they see the light of Almighty God, we cannot believe that external things are unknown to them’.”

8. St. Thomas even knew that “Yet Augustine says this in doubt; and premises, ‘Let every one take, as he pleases, what I say.’ Gregory, on the other hand, is positive, since he says, ‘We cannot believe’. His opinion, indeed, seems to be the most reliable one, that the souls of the blessed who see God do know all that passes here. For they are equal to the angels, of whom Augustine says that they know what happens among those living on Earth. But as the souls of the blessed are most perfectly united to Divine justice, they do not suffer from sorrow, nor do they interfere in mundane affairs, except in accordance with Divine justice” (Summa Theologica, I, 89, 8).

9. What should we say instead for the souls of the dead who are in Purgatory or in Hell?

We must first of all exclude that they may have direct knowledge about things of this world like we do because they are separate from their bodies.

Instead, they may have indirect knowledge of it.

According to St. Thomas “the affairs of the living can be made known to them not immediately, but the souls who pass hence thither, or by angels and demons, or even by ‘the revelation of the Holy Ghost’, as Augustine says” (Summa Theologica, I, 89, 8, ad 1).

Therefore, that is always a matter of limited and indirect knowledge.

The full knowledge only belongs to the ones in Heaven, because they see everything in the mind of God.

10. What about the dead who appear to the living in their sleep or wakefulness, and warn them of what is going on down here?

Since Samuel, after his death, appeared to Saul foretelling his defeat in battle, some might say that this would not have been possible if they had no knowledge about our affairs.

Here is the thought of St. Thomas: “That the dead appear to the living in any way whatever is either by the special dispensation of God; in order that the souls of the dead may interfere in affairs of the living—and this is to be accounted as miraculous. Or else such apparitions occur through the instrumentality of bad or good angels, without the knowledge of the departed; as may likewise happen when the living appear, without their own knowledge, to others living, as Augustine says in the same book. And so it may be said of Samuel that he appeared through Divine revelation; according to Ecclus. 46:23, ‘he slept, and told the king the end of his life’. Or, again, this apparition was procured by the demons; unless, indeed, the authority of Ecclesiasticus be set aside through not being received by the Jews as canonical Scripture” (Summa Theologica, I, 89, 8, ad 2).

11. So, it is excluded that the souls of the deceased, especially if they are in Hell, know everything that happens in this world.

Therefore, someone’s claim to ensure a dialogue with the dead is very fragile.

At most they can do it only through the mediation of the devil, who however is “a liar and the father of lies” (Jn 8:44), and what devil says is absolutely not to be trusted.

12. In relation to Maria Simma’s, and others’ statement about the knowledge that the souls in Purgatory would have, we can only say that they see all that they are given to see.

We cannot say more.

But it is certain that they do not see directly as we can do by looking toward another one.

They only see what is communicated to them by other souls or by illuminations from the Angels.

I thank you for the question and I bless you.

Father Angelo